அதற்கும் லஞ்சம் கொடுத்தால் தான் நீங்கள் முதல் பட்டதாரி என்று நிரூபிக்க முடியும்.
அல்லது நீங்கள் கரைவேட்டி கட்டியவரின் மகனாக இருக்க வேண்டும்.
பொருளாதார அடிப்படையில் இனி இட ஒதுக்கீடு அமைந்தால்தான் பிரச்னை இல்லாமல் இருக்கும்.

So we are back to square one!

I request Samraj or any member of the forum                                              toto syaye the cut off mark for 1.Sc /St, @. OBC ,3.BC and4 FC bin the Tamilnadu selection for Medical and engineering admissions of current year to make further discussion usefull and diligent.

Kothand

Originally posted by samraj Originally posted by annaachi Originally posted by annaachi Originally posted by samraj ..... The "educated crowd" always trying to find an excuse, which I totally disagree with you. Only if there is a will there is a way!!!...Some one will give a lame excuse saying that due to "reservation policy" in India they are going to US... Lame excuse, you say?? On what planet do you live nowadays, Samraj?? Three weeks ago, I was reading a local newspaper in which there was an advertisement by the State Govt for job vacancies. There were 20 vacancies for the post of Special officers in the Education dept. Out of the 20, 8 were reserved for the SC/ ST candidates. 6 were reserved for OBC candidates and the remaining 6 were open for the General pool. Our quota system is such that the SC/ST candidates can apply for the 8 reserved vacancies AND also for the 6 General Pool vacancies. ( but not for the 6 vacancies reserved for OBC). The OBC candidates can apply for the 6 reserved vacancies AND the 6 general pool vacancies (but not for the 8 reserved for SC/ST) All eligible candidates including SC/ST, OBC, can apply for the General pool openings. This is how our half baked quota policy works. So those who are not covered by the Quotas/ Reservation, will go wherever their talents are valued and rewarded, since India does not seem to need them !!.... The larger impact on the quality of civil administration. We both seem to agree that if we settle for second rate administration, we will definitely get second rate quality work in our govt offices!!! I can only accept your argument as one sided... Reservation in Education and Govt Body is "must to have" in India or else we will have much more problems than what we have now...As long as "some people" gain power in "Central Administration", they will say India is Great or else they will say US is great We need participation in the "Central Administration" from all parts of India or else people don't feel that they are not part of India and Patriotism can be found only among those who are in powers in the "Central Administration", they are actually minority in India "Central Administration" is a powerful decision making body in India. A good example is how Tamils are humiliated in Srilankan issue despite a strong regional Govt. and support from people... Every region has different beliefs, language, ideology etc...India is united among all such differences...An educated majority people will not simply accept some one who cannot understand their feelings and sitting in the powerful "Central Administration" and acting against them. This could be possible as long as majority are innocent and uneducated, this is what happened so far in India, now you have to accept the fact and the change which are required...

Originally posted by prmy இட ஒதுக்கீட்டினால் ஒன்றும் குடி முழுகி போய் விடவில்லை தான் ஒன்றை தவிர. வீரமணி மகனும், விருதுபட்டி வீராசாமி மகனும் ஒன்றா?

சரி. ஒன்றில்லைதான். வேறு ஒரு கேள்வியையும் கேட்டுக்கொள்வோமே?

‘எருவள்ளி வயலில் போட்டுவிட்டு பள்ளூடம் போறவனும், சிபிடி(Computer Based Teaching)யை CD ல் பார்த்துக்கொண்டே கான்வெண்ட் போறவனும் ஒண்ணா?’

இந்த காண்டெக்ஸ்ட்டில் ‘வீட்டின் முதல் பட்டதாரியின் கல்விக்கட்டணத்தை அரசே ஏற்றுக்கொள்ளும்’ என்ற தமிழக அரசின் அறிவிப்பினை கைத்தட்டி வரவேற்கிறேன்! இதன் Impact இன்னும் ஐந்தாறு வருடங்களில் தெரியும்.

பொதுப்பிரிவினரைப் பார்த்து நான் கேட்கிறேன்! அய்யா, மேற்கண்ட சலுகை ‘சாதி வேறுபாடின்றி’ அனைவருக்கும்! நீங்களும் போய் இந்த சலுகையை வாங்குங்களேன்? யாரு தடுக்கறது?

அங்கதான் நிக்கறான் சந்திரன்!!

.-.-.-.-.-.

எங்கள் வீட்டில் இந்த சலுகையை யாரும் வாங்க முடியாது.

என் தாய் பத்தாம் வகுப்பில் ஆங்கிலத்தில் ஃபெயில்.

என் தந்தை அந்தக்கால பியூசி.

குழந்தைகள் நாங்க மூணு பேரும் போஸ்ட் கிராஜுவேட். வீட்டு மாப்பிள்ளைகள் ரெண்டு பேரும், B.E & MBA. எங்கன போயி எங்க பசங்களுக்கு ‘முதல் பட்டதாரி’ சலுகையை வாங்குறது? கொமட்டுல குத்திப்புடுவாங்ய!

.-.-.-.-.

என்ன சொல்ல வருகிறேன் என்று சொன்னால், ‘யூனிவர்சல் லாஜிக்படி’ இட ஒதுக்கீடு தவறானது. ஆனால், நடைமுறையில், இந்தியாவில், இட ஒதுக்கீட்டினை கொண்டுவந்தவர்களின் நோக்கத்தில் தவறில்லை.

என்னைக் கேட்டால், இட ஒதுக்கீட்டுக் கொள்கையில் காமராஜருக்கு இருந்த ‘தெளிவான பார்வை’ இப்போது கலைஞர் உள்பட, யாருக்கும் இல்லை.

- ஆங்கைஸ்நெட்

Originally posted by samraj Also, people at your Age may prefer a doctor like kerala "Shakeera" and people at my age may prefer a doctor like "Trishaa" / "Kathrina" who knows!!!

thirumalai is a well read and informed man so why would you want to impose your pastor's choice on him ?

also through your suggestions, i get a feeling that your "problems" for which you would want to consult a doctor may be "very well different" from what thirumalai would want to visit a doctor for.

infact before you meet trishaa-alike or "kathrina-alike", consult your pastor. he may have a simpler cure.

btw i wonder why you would go to a doctor at all ? wouldnt paul dinakaran cure you ?

If you observe closely, you can easily see who is treating all the top politicians. (academically challenged or merit candidates)

:-)

Originally posted by Thirumalai A fellow who has obtained distinction in medicine is doing his job as a doctor. Another fellow who has managed to scrape through obtaining minimum marks through quota is also called a doctor. Samraj would prefer the latter to the former in case both are available for treating him.

You are making a fundamental wrong assumptions,

1. There is a basic minimum score and qualification - This need not to be compromised. I do agree with you, if this was compromised

2. Competition - Reservation helps them to get the seat. This is universally accepted principle, even some western countries had a quota system for Garment export/import to avoid huge import from China alone. US H1B visa has some quota for countries. It is your mindset which sees this as a big problem and wrong doings but actually it is not.

Answering your question,

Hope, you are not asking your Doctor with questions like "Are you a distinction?, How many arrears you had? etc...you may find a different treatment from them so be careful and take care". There are other factors like "KaiRaaSi", Hospitality and Affordability also matters in choosing a Doctor. Also, people at your Age may prefer a doctor like kerala "Shakeera" and people at my age may prefer a doctor like "Trishaa" / "Kathrina" who knows!!!

Originally posted by annaachi Originally posted by annaachi Originally posted by samraj ..... The "educated crowd" always trying to find an excuse, which I totally disagree with you. Only if there is a will there is a way!!!...Some one will give a lame excuse saying that due to "reservation policy" in India they are going to US... Lame excuse, you say?? On what planet do you live nowadays, Samraj?? Three weeks ago, I was reading a local newspaper in which there was an advertisement by the State Govt for job vacancies. There were 20 vacancies for the post of Special officers in the Education dept. Out of the 20, 8 were reserved for the SC/ ST candidates. 6 were reserved for OBC candidates and the remaining 6 were open for the General pool. Our quota system is such that the SC/ST candidates can apply for the 8 reserved vacancies AND also for the 6 General Pool vacancies. ( but not for the 6 vacancies reserved for OBC). The OBC candidates can apply for the 6 reserved vacancies AND the 6 general pool vacancies (but not for the 8 reserved for SC/ST) All eligible candidates including SC/ST, OBC, can apply for the General pool openings. This is how our half baked quota policy works. So those who are not covered by the Quotas/ Reservation, will go wherever their talents are valued and rewarded, since India does not seem to need them !!.... The larger impact on the quality of civil administration. We both seem to agree that if we settle for second rate administration, we will definitely get second rate quality work in our govt offices!!!

I can only accept your argument as one sided...

Reservation in Education and Govt Body is "must to have" in India or else we will have much more problems than what we have now...As long as "some people" gain power in "Central Administration", they will say India is Great or else they will say US is great

We need participation in the "Central Administration" from all parts of India or else people don't feel that they are not part of India and Patriotism can be found only among those who are in powers in the "Central Administration", they are actually minority in India

"Central Administration" is a powerful decision making body in India. A good example is how Tamils are humiliated in Srilankan issue despite a strong regional Govt. and support from people...

Every region has different beliefs, language, ideology etc...India is united among all such differences...An educated majority people will not simply accept some one who cannot understand their feelings and sitting in the powerful "Central Administration" and acting against them. This could be possible as long as majority are innocent and uneducated, this is what happened so far in India, now you have to accept the fact and the change which are required...

competition increases. no strict rules. people finding shortcuts. like ramki says lets have reservation for all.

பொதுப்பிரிவினரே!

இட ஒதுக்கீடு என்ற ‘கான்செப்டினை’ கொள்கை அளவில் நான் எதிர்க்கிறேன்.

ரொம்ப சிம்பிள்.

1) ‘ரெண்டாம், மூணாம் ரக திறமை போதும் என்று முடிவெடுத்துவிட்டால், ரெண்டாம், மூன்றாம் ரக சர்வீஸ் க்வாலிட்டிதான் கிடைக்கும். ஒட்டுமொத்த தேச நலன்களுக்கு இது குந்தகம் விளைவிக்கும்.   நாட்டில் தீவிரவாதத்தினை ஒழிக்க முடியாமல் இருப்பதற்கு ‘ரெண்டாங்கட்ட திறமைசாலிகள், ரெண்டாங்கட்ட பாதுகாப்பு’ கொடுப்பதுதான் காரணம் என்று நான் திடமாக நம்புகிறேன்.

2) நல்லா நடக்கறவனுக்கு ரெண்டு அக்குள்ளையும் ஊன்றுகோல் குடுத்தா, அவன் கடேசி வரைக்கும் தானா நடக்கவே மாட்டான்.

எல்லாம் ரைட்டுதான் பொதுப்பிரிவினரே!

நீங்க ஒருவேளை பார்ப்பன சமூகமா இருக்கலாம்.
நாட்டுக்கோட்டை செட்டியாரா இருக்கலாம்.
இட ஒதுக்கீடு கிடைக்காத ஏதாவது நாயுடு சமூகமாயிருக்கலாம்.

நான் என்ன கேக்கறேன்னா, ‘இப்ப என்ன கெட்டுப்போச்சுங்கறேன்? என்ன கொறைஞ்சு போயிட்டீங்கங்கறேன்?’

இட ஒதுக்கீட்டுக் கொள்கையினால், பொதுப்பிரிவினர் ஒன்றும் குடிமுழுகிப்போய்விடவில்லை என்று நான் நினைக்கிறேன்.

அதே நேரத்தில், இட ஒதுக்கீடு எந்த நோக்கத்திற்காக கொண்டுவரப்பட்டதோ, அது முழுமையாக நிறைவேறவில்லையென்றும் நான் நினைக்கிறேன்.

உதாரணமாக, இஞ்ஜினியரிங் படிப்பதற்கு 40% ‘எலிஜிபிலிட்டி’ போதும் என்று சொன்னாலும், பட்டியல் பிரிவினர், பட்டியல் இனத்தோர் மற்றும் அருந்ததிய மாணவ மணவியருக்கான இடங்கள் பாதிக்கு மேல் நிரப்பப்படாமல்தான் உள்ளன.

அவை என்ன ஆகும்? வேறென்ன? நிர்வாக ஒதுக்கீட்டில் சேர்க்கப்பட்டுவிடும். அரசுக் கல்லூரியில் வாங்கும் கட்டணத்தினை விட ஏறக்குறைய நான்கு மடங்கு கட்டி, பொதுப்பிரிவினர் சேர்ந்துவிடுவார்கள்.

சரி, அப்படியும் ‘லேப்ஸ்’ ஆகும் காலியிடங்கள் என்னவாகும்? அடுத்த வருடம், ‘லேட்டரல் என்ட்ரி’ என்ற பெயரில் ‘நிர்வாக ஒதுக்கீட்டில்’ அதாவது, ‘மேனேஜ்மென்ட் கோட்டாவில்’ பொதுப்பிரிவினர் சேர்ந்துவிடுவார்கள்.

மொத்தத்தில், ‘இட ஒதுக்கீட்டினால் என் இடம் போய்விட்டதே’ என்று யாரும் வருந்துவதில்லை. ‘வாட்ஸ் நெக்ஸ்ட்?’ என்று அடுத்த படிக்கட்டுக்குப் போய்விடுகிறார்கள். பணம் நாலு மடங்கு அதிகம் செலவாவது உண்மைதான். அதனாலென்ன? ‘கல்விக்கடன் தான் நாலு லட்சம் வரைக்கும் வட்டியில்லாம நம்ம சிதம்பரம் அங்கிள் வங்கி மூலமா குடுக்குறாரே?’

பொதுப்பிரிவினரே! வேறென்ன உங்க வேலை நடக்காம நின்னுடுச்சி? இட ஒதுக்கீட்டுனால சோறு திங்காம இருக்கீங்களா? துணி கட்டாம உட்டுட்டீங்களா? புள்ளை குட்டிதான் பெத்துக்காம போயிட்டீங்களா?

பொதுப்பிரிவினரே! அவர்களுக்கு ஆதரவானவர்களே! உங்க பதில்களைப் பார்த்துட்டு என் வாதங்களை வைக்கிறேன்.

- ஆங்கைஸ்நெட்

பின் குறிப்பு: அண்ணாச்சி சார்! நீங்க English லயே பொளந்துகட்டுங்க! நான் ஏதோ எனக்கு தெரிஞ்ச வரைக்கும் பதில் சொல்றேன்!

அட்மின் சார்! ‘இது நாத்திகர் பக்கம்’ அப்படீன்னு இருக்கற மாதிரி, ‘இது பொதுப்பிரிவினர் பக்கமா’ இருக்கட்டுமே? அங்கனதான் (Reservation) ஒரே சண்டையா இருக்கு. இங்கே இவங்க என்னதான் பேசி ஒரு முடிவுக்கு வராங்கன்னுதான் பாப்பமே?

-------------------------------

The Indian Constitution states that the Quota/ Reservation for the protected castes cannot exceed 50%.

But our politicians, not conversant with the Constitution, play games in order to grab power. In 1993, the TN govt raised the percentage to 69% and to avoid challenges in courts, the political rascals quietly hid it under Schedule 9 !!

In Karnataka, the wily politicians playing similar game, raised the percentage to a whopping 73% but did not hide this sleight of hand nonsense in the Schedule 9 !

The SC has been year after year, asking the TN govt to increase the seats available in order to ensure that the seats available for the General pool numerically remain unaffected but to no avail. ( YOu may remember that IITs have implemented that policy when under the crook Arjun Singh, the HRD ministry forced through a law providing for quota for incompetent students)

So now the SC has passed two judgemens - one for the TN govt and one for the Karnataka govt.

The judgement gives TN one year time to show justification for exceeding the quota limit per constitution. (A 1997 judgement stripped the protection of schedule 9).

In the case of Karnataka, the judgement passed an interim stay of the law exceeding the 50% quota and asked the state govt to review the reservation issue.

TN / Karnataka should not exceed 50% quota !

Originally posted by samraj Originally posted by sinnamma I am really surprised that you, of all the members, failed to grasp the cascading effects of this "not-so-innocous" Quota/Reservation policy! When you substitute "Caste for competence" as the primary selection criterion, you introduce a chain of reactions very damaging to the system. For starters, "Caste instead of competence" introduces incompetence into the system. Incompetence leads to bad governance. Bad governance leads to poor management of country's resources - both human and material! That results is poor city & state administration, poor infracture - bad roads, poor public health services, poor water supply system, poor quality of education for the masses etc etc.   It vitiates every aspect of our living. We cannot prevent crooks and scalawags from being elected as members of the assembly and parliament. But don't you think that the people of this country at least deserve a competent administrative set up to compensate for that??    I sure do !! The Hindu social system made the other communities as "Slaves" to service the top layer. May be Sinnamma wants to continue the same by not giving opportunity for those communities in terms of education and social status? Sinnamma is just trying to find "Reservation" as a scapegoat to blame for everything by looking at one side hypothetically Sinnamma is making a clever hypothetical assumption that only "Scientist from ISRO" (just used as example to Quote the toppers in education) can run the Govt. body and take wise decisions!!! I can prove that the same so-called top layer has crucified many Govt. bodies and functions. We have debated this so many times in this forum, so I do not want to highlight that again I too agree that any compromise / trade of policy framed for good will of the society will have both positive and negative impacts. In my opinion, the impact on the Reservation Policy on the negative side will be more if the Govt. continue the Creamy Layer. Ellimination of "Creamy Layer" in the "Reservation Policy" may the right solution for Sinnamma's worries. I doubt that the top layer wanted to introduce the "Creamy Layer" into the "Reservation Policy" to show cause, it is not yielding good results!!!

My friend

Reservation is there for 60 years. It must have covered minimum two generations or maximum three generation. If you feel that it must not have crateed creamy layer then the same needs to be removed for ineffective measure,

If you feel it has created development and a creamy layer then that must be removed. Honestly in todays world, it does not matter as there are backward class mp promoted institutions which are ready to give seats on doling out money. What require is money might be legal or illegal to get studies if the person has the conviction to study. Further today bank provide liberal loans to students for education, which they can repay after their education.

I know some of the FC students who study in the private engineering college by bank loan, so if the participants here want the backward people to really grow they must exclude the earlier beneficiary so that there is place for others to come.

Why these guys had these much of worries due to Reservation..?

Why These guys had these much of opposition....??


N.b:-
Somebody may tell..
hare boy (Bhai)..

Take a look in this thread..
u will get answer...

Originally posted by kavithan .......நமது சின்னம்மா இல்லையா அவருக்கும் இந்தியாவைப் பிடித்து ஆட்டுகின்ற அனைத்து பிரச்சினைகளுகும் மூல காரணம் இட ஒதுக்கீடுதான் என்கிறாரே. அதைப் பற்றி மீண்டும் பதிவு செய்ய இருக்கிறேன். அநியாயத்திற்கு இட ஒதுகீட்டைக் குறை சொல்லிக்கொண்டிருக்கிறார். .

I am really surprised that you, of all the members, failed to grasp the cascading effects of this "not-so-innocous" Quota/Reservation policy!


When you substitute "Caste for competence" as the primary selection criterion, you introduce a chain of reactions very damaging to the system.

For starters, "Caste instead of competence" introduces incompetence into the system.

Incompetence leads to bad governance.

Bad governance leads to poor management of country's resources - both human and material!

That results is poor city & state administration, poor infracture - bad roads, poor public health services, poor water supply system, poor quality of education for the masses etc etc.   It vitiates every aspect of our living.

We cannot prevent crooks and scalawags from being elected as members of the assembly and parliament.

But don't you think that the people of this country at least deserve a competent administrative set up to compensate for that??   

I sure do !!